Nominations Clarification Post #2

[mod63]

• Kamen Rider Decade, Kamen Rider Kiva, and Kamen Rider Zi-O: These appear to be a shared continuity, with an overlapping universe and characters. Can the nominator or someone else familiar with them please clarify?
• Persona 5: The nomination includes a tag for Akira Kurusu/Joker. These appear to be the same person. Can the nominator or someone else familiar with Persona 5 clarify?
• Peter Pan & Related Fandoms: Please comment or edit your nomination to specify the Barrie version, the animated film, etc.
• Star Wars - All Media Types: The same relationships were nominated for Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader. We are aware that these are the same person. Nominator, please clarify?
• Voltron: Legendary Defender: "Any" is not permitted in this exchange. Please comment or edit your nomination to refer to a specific Shiro clone or other ship of your choice; if not, it will eventually be approved with Kuron.
• X-Men (Alternate Timeline Movies): Nominator, please explain. To which films does this refer and how are they a distinct fandom from other films?

The previous post has outstanding issues relating to Batman - All Media Types, The Witcher (TV), DCU Comics, DC's Arrowverse, and Dragon Age (Video Games).

Further to Star Wars - as some participants have correctly observed, the use of All Media Types this year was to avoid situations where a large number of Crossover Fandom nominations are between characters in a shared continuity who are in the same place at the same time, who are related to one another, etc. (For the same reason, mod is considering the best umbrella tag to encompass Tolkien's Silmarillion, Lord of the Rings, and Hobbit books but not Smith of Wootton Major, etc. or Jackson films; nominator waiting for approval in one of these fandoms, thanks for being patient.) However, the mod is not familiar with all Star Wars properties and would appreciate any guidance on the place in the Star Wars continuity of the games Jedi: Fallen Order and The Old Republic, or anything else you feel may be helpful regarding SW properties that are not the films.

Thank you!

Comments

X-Men (Alternate Timeline Movies)

[sirvalkyrie]

Hello! The X-Men Alternate Timeline Movies is my nomination. The Alternate Timeline Movies and the Original Timeline Movies are the same universe. It's exchange convention to split them up between the two, but as long as my character are disambiguated with what timeline they are from, I don't mind the movies being combined into one.

The tag "X-Men Alternate Timeline Movies" specifically refers to the movies X-Men First Class, X-Men Days of Future Past, X-Men Apocalypse, and Dark Phoenix. I've gone ahead and changed the fandom to "X-Men Movieverse" and just left the disambiguation the same so it's clear which timeline in it I'm referring to.

Re: X-Men (Alternate Timeline Movies)

[mod63]

Thank you! So are these different versions of characters à la the Wishverse in Buffy or the Mirror Universe in Star Trek?

Re: X-Men (Alternate Timeline Movies)

[sirvalkyrie]

Simple answer: Yes.It's a divergent timeline.

Complex answer. So the original trilogy of X-Men movies happened, Those are X-Men, X2: X-Men United, and X-Men: The Last Stand. Then they made prequel/soft reboot in the past called X-Men First Class.For the sequel of X-Men First Class they decided to connect the original trilogy with the new movies. The plot of it is that the world of the original trilogy has gone to hell and mutants are being hunted to extinction. They send the original trilogy Logan back in time to change the timeline. It's successful. From that point on the Alternate timeline movies go in their own direction, this can be seen especially well in how the Phoenix was handled in their respective timelines. In the original timeline Jean had no control over it, accidentally murdered the love of her life and had to be begged to be killed to stop herself. In the alternate timeline Jean stopped herself before she could kill him and instead accepted the Phoenix on her own.

Re: X-Men (Alternate Timeline Movies)

[mod63]

Okay, this has been approved under X-Men Movieverse. I'm assuming that "alternate timeline" is the terminology as used in the fandom so that people interested in requesting/offering these characters will all understand what versions are being referred to by these tags.

Persona 5

[sirvalkyrie]

Not my nomination.

Akira Kurusu, Joker, as well as Persona 5 Protagonist, Ren Amamiya, as well a whole ton of other names are the same character. Joker is his codename when acting as a Phantom Thief, but he's very much the same person (similar to most DC and Marvel comics). Akira Kurusu is the name given to the protagonist in the manga adaptation. Ren Amamiya is the name given to the protagonist in the anime adaptation as well as the dancing video game. The other names are used in the stage play. There is no default name in the base game.

Re: Kamen Rider

[flaim_ita]

Okay so there is a reason these were nominated separately.

Hesei and now Reiwa Kamen Rider series exist in softly separate universes, only combined during non-canon crossovers. Kiva in particular is Phase One Heisei where there really weren’t even crossovers, and only two Kiva characters show up in Decade, a different 2 in Zi-O. Of these, the three who were nommed and appeared in outside media are “alternates”. Otoya is an AR counterpart from the Decade-original World of Nega, and Yuri and Jirou have had their histories rewritten when they appear in Zi-O. Any requests from the nominated Kiva pairings refer solely to the versions which appeared in Kiva. Which is, again, it’s own separate universe.

As for Decade and Zi-O… this is complicated because despite both being unique stories, they *are* anniversary seasons, and part of the more-tightly-connected Neo-Hesei era. And Zi-O is very much a soft sequel to Decade. These could probably be changed to KR-AMT or KR-Heisei Era if required. But like. Natsumi and Yuusuke are in no way Zi-O characters. Also it’s just a general rule that due to the standalone nature of the seasons, Toku with separate universes like KR or Sentai be separate even if, say, Power Rangers and Ultraman are kept in one fandom.

Re: Kamen Rider

[mod63]

Thank you very much for this helpful explanation! Based on what you've said, it seems like it would make sense to approve your nominations as "Kamen Rider Heisei Era" or "Kamen Rider Heisei Phase One" (if characters who are a substantial part of the plot in Kiva also appear in Decade in a significant capacity as the character travels between universes) and "Kamen Rider Zi-O" (since even though Kiva is referenced and Jirou appears, the connection is more tenuous). Does that make sense?

Re: Kamen Rider

[flaim_ita]

I would actually suggest otherwise, that either Decade or Zi-O was subsumed into the other’s tag and Kiva remains separate. Even Wataru’s presence in Decade is (officially, but it’s stupid so I ignore it) considered to be yet another AR (alternate Rider) counterpart. The strongest ties are undeniably between Zi-O and Decade, and Tsukasa even temporarily serves as both a tertiary Rider and villain general in Zi-O. Kiva was the last standalone season until… Zero-One, 11 years later. Or else all three could be merged into KR Heisei Era

Re: Kamen Rider

[mod63]

Thank you for the clarification, and sorry for the mistake! Approved under one fandom.

Re: Kamen Rider

[mod63]

Hi, sorry for the further questions. It looks like there are two characters called Woz. Do you want to nominate Black Woz or White Woz (or am I mistaken in thinking they're different people)?

Re: Kamen Rider

[flaim_ita]

Hi. So Ao3 separates it as “Woz” and “White Woz” (because Black Woz is the true Woz and the first Woz and the good Woz) which is what I used as a base, but I meant Black Woz. Yes, they’re different characters.

Re: Kamen Rider

[mod63]

Thank you! For some reason I couldn't find either a Black Woz or a White Woz canonical tag when I looked, so I wasn't sure which one AO3 was treating as the default. Approved!

[(Anonymous)]

I'm the nominator for Akira Kurusu/Joker and I'd like to request Joker as a separate entity.

[mod63]

Hi, this wasn't really the question. If the Joker is an alias of Kurusu Akira, nominating an AU where they are separate people is outside the scope of this exchange. Can you elaborate on what you mean by a separate entity?

(some) Star Wars

[tigerlily]

I'm the Darth Vader nominator--it was mostly done out of habit, since often even exchanges which put all of Star Wars together will allow separate nominations for the character in this way. My understanding, based on how I've seen other people discuss it, is that it's worked out this way because he's known as mostly one or the other in two different eras, and their separate canons, so this provides some guidance as to what the requester/offerer is interested in. I hadn't realized it would be different here, and have now removed those. It works for me either way!

Jedi Fallen Order falls within the new continuity, in between the prequel and original trilogies.

Re: (some) Star Wars

[mod63]

Thank you for the input! I was mostly looking for clarification because I know enough about Star Wars to know that they're the same person but don't participate in the fandom enough to know how those nominations are treated in exchanges. Although in general I would not consider it appropriate to use tag-matching for different parts of the life of a single character (eg. "Princess Leia of Alderaan" vs. "General Organa"), I'd consider deferring to common practice in the fandom.

Thanks as well re: Jedi Fallen Order; I may message you, if that's all right?

-mod

Re: (some) Star Wars

[tigerlily]

Sorry for the delayed response!

Anakin | Vader is the only character I’ve seen who is handled this way in the fandom when it comes to exchange tags. As I said, I’m personally comfortable with whichever way you’d like to handle it.

It’s all right if you want to message me, but what I know of the video game fandom is not much, and from osmosis. KOTOR is legends canon and I think SWTOR is too.

Re: (some) Star Wars

[mod63]

Thank you! I will retain that as a single tag but change it to Anakin | Vader. The guidance re: KOTOR/SWTOR being Legends is appreciated as well!

[(Anonymous)]

swtor is literally set 3k years before the main movies/everything else
so that might be better as a separate fandom
Jedi: Fallen Order is set 4 years after O66 so is taking place recently after the prequel trilogy and clone wars and about a decade before Rebels and the original trilogy so it makes sense to go under AMT given the reasoning the mods gave
(copy/pasted stuff i put in discord when it was pointed out i should comment it here)

[mod63]

Thank you! This is helpful. If you have a Dreamwidth or e-mail, would it be okay if I followed up?
-mod

[(Anonymous)]

It's either all the same fandom and goes in AMT or it's not and should be broken into individual properties. Breaking out SWTOR / KOTOR but not the others doesn't make any sense.

[dirty_diana]

Hi, I nominated rpf for two sources and they both got changed to "actor rpf", which means I'm getting this message:

Sorry! We couldn't save this tag set nomination because:You seem to be trying to nominate Actor RPF more than once.

please let me know what I should do with the rest of my nominations, thanks.

[mod63]

Sorry for the unforeseen frustration! If it isn't letting you save your nominations, comment or shoot me a message and I will add them manually.

[dirty_diana]

Okay, will do. I'd also say that it's extremely common in actor fandom to use more specific names and in some exchanges like Yuletide we're discouraged from using the broad rpf tags, so if you'd prefer a broad tag here it might be something to put in the guidelines.